Corn oil os 60% linoleic acid. I believe other studies that avoid linoleic acid intake as a portion of fat intake, do not show calorically equal hi fat diets causing more wt gain
It's may not make sense, however, to generalize from murine experiments because the gut microbiome interacts with various combinations of amino acid, fatty acid, and simple/complex sugars to produce all manner of obesogenic and anti-obesigenic effects. https://www.sciopen.com/article/10.26599/FSHW.2024.9250070
The same response is seen in humans as illustrated by this narrative. "Using large prospective datasets, higher blood levels of LA were associated with lower risk of coronary heart disease, stroke and incident type-2 diabetes mellitus compared with lower levels, suggesting that, across the range of typical dietary intakes, higher LA is beneficial." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11391774/
Typically, risk of mortality decreases by an estimated 17% across the range of typical dietary intakes of LA. In light of the fact that most people alive today are destined to die from either heart disease or cancer, that 17% decreased risk might be compared to shifting from a position on a battlefield under heavy fire with little cover to a more protected area with less enemy fire. Clearly, exiting the battlefield would effectively eliminate risk of death from enemy fire. Likewise, decreasing linoleic acid intake to a levels that don't exceed physiological requirements by a significant margin could, theoretically, eliminate risk of death from chronic inflammatory disease. But that hypothesis has yet to be tested on humans. https://karger.com/anm/article/58/1/59/40551/ISSFAL-2010-Dinner-Debate-Healthy-Fats-for-Healthy
I may have mentioned this before. Here are two reasons why the so-called Mediterranean diet produces favorable results. "The Mediterranean diet is low in arachidonic acid and rich in healthy fats such as monounsaturated fats found in extra-virgin olive oil (EVOO), nuts and omega-3 fatty acids from fish, which has been shown to lower the risk of inflammation, heart disease, cancer, diabetes and obesity, and other degenerative diseases." https://advancedmolecularlabs.com/blogs/news/new-red-meat-study-controversy
Although he doesn't know it, Andrew Taylor's SpudFit approach is low in arachidonic acid and linoleic acid. Shifting food intake so as to eat less meat and more potatoes automatically reduces arachidonic acid to levels that improve insulin sensitivity and attenuate excessive endocannabinoid signaling. In other words, one can lose weight without discomfort. https://spudfit.com/about/
(2003) Penelope J. Greene designed an effective weght loss approach that probably was never replicated. Fat intake was largely olive oil which has been shown to displace arachidonic acid from cell membranes. At the time, she couldn't explain why the study diet worked as well as it did. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/10/15/harvard-study-backs-low-carbohydrate-diet-a/
Insulin sensitivity improves if one swaps oleic acid for dietary saturated fat. The effect is achieved by increasing the circulating pool of monunsaturated fatty acid molecules. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19558671/
Are there any real foods that are high in ARA but not 10x higher in LA? It seems pretty rare in whole foods. Unless you maybe synthesize pure ARA oil..
"Are there any real foods that are high in ARA but not 10x higher in LA?"
This narrative speaks to that issue. I recommend you read the entire article.
"The somewhat paradoxical conclusion may be reached that it would probably be better for many patients, when overproduction of prostaglandins is a major problem (e.g. in various pain conditions), and when the omega-6/omega-3 ratio of some animal food (e.g. pork meat) is too high, to eat meat products containing much adipose tissue rather than lean meat. It is thus possible that efforts to breed animals (e.g. swine) with proportionately less adipose tissue compared with muscle (because this was thought to be better for the health of the consumer) may have been largely futile, as far as the intended health effects are concerned. It would probably be much better, if we want to minimize prostaglandin production (e.g. in a patient with chronic pain, or a patient with metastatic colon cancer), to recommend animal foods that have a low omega-6/omega-3 fatty acid ratio at the same time as the proportion of adipose tissue to muscle is high. This could be done especially when the adipose tissue from the animal has a low concentration of LA with higher relative concentrations of oleic acid, ALA and saturated fatty acids (e.g. meat from sheep or goats that have been slaughtered during the autumn after they have been fattened on mountain pastures during the whole summer), while animal adipose tissue containing too much LA relative to the sum of ALA, oleic and stearic acid (since stearic acid can partly be converted into oleic acid following intestinal absorption in the human body) should not be similarly recommended." https://lipidworld.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1476-511X-10-16
When overproduction of prostaglandins is a major problem, eat meat products containing much adipose tissue rather than lean meat. Why? Because all lean meat contains arachidonic acid. It is the cumulative amount of daily arachidonic acid intake that eventually unbalances cell membrane concentrations of 20-carbon chain omega-6s and 3s.
That LA is not obesogenic at higher intakes, say 40 percent of kcal, is known and its mechanism discussed by Peter @HyperLipid.
However, improving insulin sensitivity does not preclude other deleterious effects of high LA intake such as observed in ketogenic diet for epileptic children,
"However, improving insulin sensitivity does not preclude other deleterious effects of high LA intake such as observed in ketogenic diet for epileptic children."
Thanks for pointing that out. This is just one downside of high linoleic acid intake.
Excerpt from Peter's high-LA ketogenic diet discussion.
(2011) “The findings have implications for our diets,” warns Singh, as UFAs (such as linoleic acid) found to be toxic in this study are not synthesized de novo by humans and excess levels of these dietary fatty acids can accumulate in obesity."
(2021) Overall, these studies supported that severe pancreatitis occurred at a lower BMI in countries with a lower dietary saturated fatty acid (SFA) intake." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7846167/
(COVID-19) Separately, on analyzing global COVID-19 mortality data and comparing it with 12 risk factors for mortality, they found unsaturated fat intake to be associated with increased mortality. This was based on the dietary fat patterns of 61 countries in the United Nations' Food and Agricultural Organization database. Surprisingly, they found saturated fats to be protective." https://www.medpagetoday.com/reading-room/aga/lower-gi/86940
When one is dealing with chronic pain, simple answers are rare and yet badly needed. My chances of finding sheep or goat meat that has been slaughtered in the autumn after feeding on mountain roughage to the songs of choirs of angels is pretty well next to nil.
Corn oil os 60% linoleic acid. I believe other studies that avoid linoleic acid intake as a portion of fat intake, do not show calorically equal hi fat diets causing more wt gain
Yes, that's the point. It's the linoleic acid that is making the diet obesogenic.
AGREE!
"Clearly some aspect of the high fat diet (a 50/50 combination of lard and corn oil) was causing a massive increase in obesity. What could that be?"
The lard alone can be obesogenic for mice due to the high linoleic acid content.
https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/41405
In addition, lard also can contain considerable quantities of arachidonic acid. https://www.altmeyers.org/en/allergology/arachidonic-acid-134782#:~:text=Arachidonic%20acid%20in%20food%3A,230%20mg%20per%20100%20g)
It's may not make sense, however, to generalize from murine experiments because the gut microbiome interacts with various combinations of amino acid, fatty acid, and simple/complex sugars to produce all manner of obesogenic and anti-obesigenic effects. https://www.sciopen.com/article/10.26599/FSHW.2024.9250070
It has been shown that insulin sensitivity improves when linoleic acid intake exceeds levels that typcally induce obesity in rats. https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.00032.2014
That's because, at high enough concentrations, linoleic acid molecules can displace arachidonic acids from their positions in cell membranes. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2875212/
The same response is seen in humans as illustrated by this narrative. "Using large prospective datasets, higher blood levels of LA were associated with lower risk of coronary heart disease, stroke and incident type-2 diabetes mellitus compared with lower levels, suggesting that, across the range of typical dietary intakes, higher LA is beneficial." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11391774/
Typically, risk of mortality decreases by an estimated 17% across the range of typical dietary intakes of LA. In light of the fact that most people alive today are destined to die from either heart disease or cancer, that 17% decreased risk might be compared to shifting from a position on a battlefield under heavy fire with little cover to a more protected area with less enemy fire. Clearly, exiting the battlefield would effectively eliminate risk of death from enemy fire. Likewise, decreasing linoleic acid intake to a levels that don't exceed physiological requirements by a significant margin could, theoretically, eliminate risk of death from chronic inflammatory disease. But that hypothesis has yet to be tested on humans. https://karger.com/anm/article/58/1/59/40551/ISSFAL-2010-Dinner-Debate-Healthy-Fats-for-Healthy
Have you ever seen a diet where arachidonic acid is shown to be obesogenic?
And yes, it's fair to generalize in obesity, where the diets and drugs have the same effects on humans and rodents.
Except for Olaf Adam, as far as I know, nobody else has deliberately experimented with reduced arachidonic acid intake. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12548439/
I may have mentioned this before. Here are two reasons why the so-called Mediterranean diet produces favorable results. "The Mediterranean diet is low in arachidonic acid and rich in healthy fats such as monounsaturated fats found in extra-virgin olive oil (EVOO), nuts and omega-3 fatty acids from fish, which has been shown to lower the risk of inflammation, heart disease, cancer, diabetes and obesity, and other degenerative diseases." https://advancedmolecularlabs.com/blogs/news/new-red-meat-study-controversy
Although he doesn't know it, Andrew Taylor's SpudFit approach is low in arachidonic acid and linoleic acid. Shifting food intake so as to eat less meat and more potatoes automatically reduces arachidonic acid to levels that improve insulin sensitivity and attenuate excessive endocannabinoid signaling. In other words, one can lose weight without discomfort. https://spudfit.com/about/
(2003) Penelope J. Greene designed an effective weght loss approach that probably was never replicated. Fat intake was largely olive oil which has been shown to displace arachidonic acid from cell membranes. At the time, she couldn't explain why the study diet worked as well as it did. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/10/15/harvard-study-backs-low-carbohydrate-diet-a/
Insulin sensitivity improves if one swaps oleic acid for dietary saturated fat. The effect is achieved by increasing the circulating pool of monunsaturated fatty acid molecules. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19558671/
Are there any real foods that are high in ARA but not 10x higher in LA? It seems pretty rare in whole foods. Unless you maybe synthesize pure ARA oil..
"Are there any real foods that are high in ARA but not 10x higher in LA?"
This narrative speaks to that issue. I recommend you read the entire article.
"The somewhat paradoxical conclusion may be reached that it would probably be better for many patients, when overproduction of prostaglandins is a major problem (e.g. in various pain conditions), and when the omega-6/omega-3 ratio of some animal food (e.g. pork meat) is too high, to eat meat products containing much adipose tissue rather than lean meat. It is thus possible that efforts to breed animals (e.g. swine) with proportionately less adipose tissue compared with muscle (because this was thought to be better for the health of the consumer) may have been largely futile, as far as the intended health effects are concerned. It would probably be much better, if we want to minimize prostaglandin production (e.g. in a patient with chronic pain, or a patient with metastatic colon cancer), to recommend animal foods that have a low omega-6/omega-3 fatty acid ratio at the same time as the proportion of adipose tissue to muscle is high. This could be done especially when the adipose tissue from the animal has a low concentration of LA with higher relative concentrations of oleic acid, ALA and saturated fatty acids (e.g. meat from sheep or goats that have been slaughtered during the autumn after they have been fattened on mountain pastures during the whole summer), while animal adipose tissue containing too much LA relative to the sum of ALA, oleic and stearic acid (since stearic acid can partly be converted into oleic acid following intestinal absorption in the human body) should not be similarly recommended." https://lipidworld.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1476-511X-10-16
When overproduction of prostaglandins is a major problem, eat meat products containing much adipose tissue rather than lean meat. Why? Because all lean meat contains arachidonic acid. It is the cumulative amount of daily arachidonic acid intake that eventually unbalances cell membrane concentrations of 20-carbon chain omega-6s and 3s.
https://lipidworld.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1476-511X-9-37
That LA is not obesogenic at higher intakes, say 40 percent of kcal, is known and its mechanism discussed by Peter @HyperLipid.
However, improving insulin sensitivity does not preclude other deleterious effects of high LA intake such as observed in ketogenic diet for epileptic children,
"However, improving insulin sensitivity does not preclude other deleterious effects of high LA intake such as observed in ketogenic diet for epileptic children."
Thanks for pointing that out. This is just one downside of high linoleic acid intake.
Excerpt from Peter's high-LA ketogenic diet discussion.
"The next thing we need to realise that modern nutritionist derived ketogenic diets cause, amongst other things, pancreatitis. https://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2019/10/ketogenic-diets-are-unhelpful-and.html
(2011) “The findings have implications for our diets,” warns Singh, as UFAs (such as linoleic acid) found to be toxic in this study are not synthesized de novo by humans and excess levels of these dietary fatty acids can accumulate in obesity."
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3321362/
(2021) Overall, these studies supported that severe pancreatitis occurred at a lower BMI in countries with a lower dietary saturated fatty acid (SFA) intake." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7846167/
(COVID-19) Separately, on analyzing global COVID-19 mortality data and comparing it with 12 risk factors for mortality, they found unsaturated fat intake to be associated with increased mortality. This was based on the dietary fat patterns of 61 countries in the United Nations' Food and Agricultural Organization database. Surprisingly, they found saturated fats to be protective." https://www.medpagetoday.com/reading-room/aga/lower-gi/86940
We had a discussion about it on X yesterday. The mechanism is not known, it happens outside of the mitochondria.
https://x.com/TuckerGoodrich/status/1907144489476755709?t=pbyHGv-I6wS0BFcXaglTsg&s=19
I guess we'll never know
Why is it all sooooo complicated 🤷🏼♀️
It is complicated because there are sooooo many variables.
Arghh
When one is dealing with chronic pain, simple answers are rare and yet badly needed. My chances of finding sheep or goat meat that has been slaughtered in the autumn after feeding on mountain roughage to the songs of choirs of angels is pretty well next to nil.