Followed your work quite awhile, searching for more the whole time.
Your impact is far greater than your numbers! My health included.
Follow Nick too and enjoy him immensely also, I don't know what it takes to produce as much as he does while studying at such a high level. I'd love to see this work combined with Dave and Nick's work! I'd love to see hundreds of rats, normal vs 1 oil added while keto, and build thresholds of bad, or something like that for all the common oils. Oil alone, oil at bad threshold, the later oil with glucose or fructose as the accelerant factor etc. Whatever makes sense to get an RDA.
This is helpful, and regarding your reference to lung cancer connected with use of rapeseed oil in China, it'd be worth knowing more about the rest of Asia, which uses all kinds of oils. China uses primarily soy and peanut (among others) but obesity is rare. Singapore and Malaysia use a lot of palm oil, and obesity is more common and seems to be getting worse. Seems like not all seed oils are created equally. Maybe has to do with the heating and oxidation?
It must vary by province/region because in Beijing, the people definitely looked different than those of Nanjing and Shanghai when I visited. There's about 50+ ethnic groups in China as well as variations in seed oil type, usage and overall diet. Needs a deep dive to draw useful conclusions I think.
Asians tend to accumulate visceral fat, whereas most other races accumulate subcutaneous fat. This means they look deceptively fit even when suffering from chronic ailments that are more visually apparent in most of the rest of us. If there is doubt of this, websearch the question to verify.
One other point: China has the exact same Type 2 Diabetes rate as America, and similar rates of other obesity-related ailments.
I did not know any of this six months ago and had the same reasoning: "if seed oils cause obesity and they're eating seed oils...then why aren't they fat?" I think it's a different kind of obesity.
Oh, I know about the diabetes risk. In fact it's very bad in Singapore where early onset dementia (also known as type 3 diabetes) is sky high. It wasn't that way 15 years ago.
I'd still like to know any differences between the Asians eating seed oils in the US versus Asia. I see lots of obviously fat Asians in the US.
That's a great point about Asians in the USA. I have also observed this. There seem to be factors that cause our friends here to accumulate fat more subcutaneously than their cousins overseas. For this question my first inclination is to recall that many people report living in France and eating meat and cheese and bread and baked goods without consideration of fat consolidation, but who then moved to (or back to) the USA and gained weight while eating the same way.
There is something in the food/water/air that causes the humans here to gain or retain weight: I'd love to know if these French people are consolidating weight or, instead, if they are now eating a caloric surplus because of diminished satiety signals.
Europe limits a lot of things that American companies regularly put into processed crap in the US. There's even more junk in the American version of Fruit Loops than what's sold over there (I checked). Fortunately people over there don't buy a lot of that crap, regardless.
One point I wish Tucker had made. The only way to lower oxLDL is to reduce O-6 intake. That is a big hint that Seed oil is a prime suspect. The other point is the graphs of LA in body fat over time. We just have not evolved to eat concentrated seed oils - it seems prudent to avoid them until/unless they find an alternative definitive cause of T2D.
T2D and obesity were rare when I was a boy. Now both are common and are the distal leading cause of death.
The obesogenic part of that diet is the seed oils in chips. Take that away, and potatoes are fine. Soda is slightly obesogenic.
There's simply a ton of evidence that carbs are not obesogenic. Like every animal study ever done, where the non-obesogenic diet is virtually always high in carbs and sugar. (See post I linked above.)
Yes, I think it was in the video we did together with Tro where we discussed keto and PUFA. The problem is that while keto does protect against PUFA toxicity, it is not a perfect protection.
> This is a false equivalence, an example of poor logic I am surprised to see from Nick.
Ha, you're a better man than me. I am strongly convinced he's a dishonest charlatan/grifter. Never had such a bad interaction on Twitter save for that other Nick, the vegan.
Ironically, Nick seems an extremely dis-curious man.
Huge Thanks Tucker,
Followed your work quite awhile, searching for more the whole time.
Your impact is far greater than your numbers! My health included.
Follow Nick too and enjoy him immensely also, I don't know what it takes to produce as much as he does while studying at such a high level. I'd love to see this work combined with Dave and Nick's work! I'd love to see hundreds of rats, normal vs 1 oil added while keto, and build thresholds of bad, or something like that for all the common oils. Oil alone, oil at bad threshold, the later oil with glucose or fructose as the accelerant factor etc. Whatever makes sense to get an RDA.
This is helpful, and regarding your reference to lung cancer connected with use of rapeseed oil in China, it'd be worth knowing more about the rest of Asia, which uses all kinds of oils. China uses primarily soy and peanut (among others) but obesity is rare. Singapore and Malaysia use a lot of palm oil, and obesity is more common and seems to be getting worse. Seems like not all seed oils are created equally. Maybe has to do with the heating and oxidation?
I gather obesity is rising rapidly in China, particularly among the young.
[AI comments]
"Between 1985 and 2014, obesity rates among rural Chinese boys grew from 0.03% to 17.2%, and among girls from 0.12% to 9.1%."
"As of 2020, over half of Chinese adults, or more than half a billion people, were classified as overweight, with 16.4% being obese."
It must vary by province/region because in Beijing, the people definitely looked different than those of Nanjing and Shanghai when I visited. There's about 50+ ethnic groups in China as well as variations in seed oil type, usage and overall diet. Needs a deep dive to draw useful conclusions I think.
Asians tend to accumulate visceral fat, whereas most other races accumulate subcutaneous fat. This means they look deceptively fit even when suffering from chronic ailments that are more visually apparent in most of the rest of us. If there is doubt of this, websearch the question to verify.
One other point: China has the exact same Type 2 Diabetes rate as America, and similar rates of other obesity-related ailments.
I did not know any of this six months ago and had the same reasoning: "if seed oils cause obesity and they're eating seed oils...then why aren't they fat?" I think it's a different kind of obesity.
Oh, I know about the diabetes risk. In fact it's very bad in Singapore where early onset dementia (also known as type 3 diabetes) is sky high. It wasn't that way 15 years ago.
I'd still like to know any differences between the Asians eating seed oils in the US versus Asia. I see lots of obviously fat Asians in the US.
That's a great point about Asians in the USA. I have also observed this. There seem to be factors that cause our friends here to accumulate fat more subcutaneously than their cousins overseas. For this question my first inclination is to recall that many people report living in France and eating meat and cheese and bread and baked goods without consideration of fat consolidation, but who then moved to (or back to) the USA and gained weight while eating the same way.
There is something in the food/water/air that causes the humans here to gain or retain weight: I'd love to know if these French people are consolidating weight or, instead, if they are now eating a caloric surplus because of diminished satiety signals.
Europe limits a lot of things that American companies regularly put into processed crap in the US. There's even more junk in the American version of Fruit Loops than what's sold over there (I checked). Fortunately people over there don't buy a lot of that crap, regardless.
This is not a racial issue, it's diet. Asians eat proportionately more n-6 PUFA, and less protective SFA. They thus get MetSyn faster on less fat.
In the US once they adopt the US diet there is no difference.
"Adipose Saturation Reduces Lipotoxic Systemic Inflammation and Explains the Obesity Paradox"
doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.abd6449
One point I wish Tucker had made. The only way to lower oxLDL is to reduce O-6 intake. That is a big hint that Seed oil is a prime suspect. The other point is the graphs of LA in body fat over time. We just have not evolved to eat concentrated seed oils - it seems prudent to avoid them until/unless they find an alternative definitive cause of T2D.
T2D and obesity were rare when I was a boy. Now both are common and are the distal leading cause of death.
We have not evolved to eat just about anything in the modern Western diet. Seed oils aren't the only villain.
Which other component is 1/5 of calories and can be shown to produce all the problems?
Curious.
Mostly it is all the refined carbs. And then there's various additives and contaminates of largely unknown effect.
Refined carbs do not cause obesity.
https://tuckergoodrich.substack.com/p/poll-results-which-diet-is-most-obesogenic
They do if they're most of your diet. Cereals, chips, and soda.
The obesogenic part of that diet is the seed oils in chips. Take that away, and potatoes are fine. Soda is slightly obesogenic.
There's simply a ton of evidence that carbs are not obesogenic. Like every animal study ever done, where the non-obesogenic diet is virtually always high in carbs and sugar. (See post I linked above.)
Nick's comments about keto were interesting. I guess if you're lean, low carb/keto and active you can burn a lot of o-6.
But that doesn't apply to many people, and not many follow the 3 practices he names at the end either.
Yes, I think it was in the video we did together with Tro where we discussed keto and PUFA. The problem is that while keto does protect against PUFA toxicity, it is not a perfect protection.
> This is a false equivalence, an example of poor logic I am surprised to see from Nick.
Ha, you're a better man than me. I am strongly convinced he's a dishonest charlatan/grifter. Never had such a bad interaction on Twitter save for that other Nick, the vegan.
Ironically, Nick seems an extremely dis-curious man.
You may have a certain attitude about you. I blocked you too...
And for no reason, remember? :D
The difference is, you came to your senses ;)